Celebrating Susan Hunt's 35 years at Woodruff-Sawyer
Interview by Melinda Mui
May 14, 2008
Susan Hunt, current Vice Chair and former Company President, has been integral to Woodruff-Sawyer’s growth and success over the past 35 years. May 2008 marks her 35th anniversary with the company, and this interview was conducted to commemorate the occasion.
In this Q&A, Susan provides perspective on how
the industry has evolved, the nuances of
international employee benefits, her time at
Woodruff-Sawyer, and more.
How has the industry changed in the last 35 years?
The biggest change is the Internet and the speed and availability of information. Thirty-five years ago, you had to send a telex and by the time you got answers back, days had passed. Yesterday, I sent an email out to our IBN partners and I got instantaneous responses.
The second biggest change is globalization. Our firm—and our clients—have become global. When I started, there were so many independent brokers. There was Marsh and Aon and a bunch of regionals. There have been a lot of mergers and consolidations since then, and so the competition is different. We’re now competing with many national players. We are one of the few brokers who are truly global, regional and independent.
What about the role of women? How has that changed?
When I started, banks and insurance companies were actually the most friendly in terms of employing women. But there were no women producers; they performed the service while men held the sales positions. That has totally changed. Look at us: half of our shareholders and over half of our management are women. And we provide equality in compensation. I don’t know of another firm in our industry like that.
How has WS&Co. evolved in your eyes?
Our firm’s fundamental values and culture remain in tact, which is wonderful. We have evolved into more of a sales culture. We had to, because the competition has changed and more people are going after the same piece of business.
Certainly, our growth and opening of additional, significant offices is a big change. I once knew all the names of our employees. With our sheer numbers and expansion, it’s difficult to do that anymore.
We’ve had a couple of leadership transitions. Fourteen years ago, leadership changed from Bob Sawyer to myself, Stan and Doug. Now, to Charlie, Mary and an expanded team. Leadership change is always disruptive, so it’s important to do it in a way that minimizes fallout. I think the transition has been pretty smooth.
As you indicated, global commerce and multinational corporations are a fact of life now. What do companies need to think about in terms of employee reward and retention worldwide?
People have moved to more of a Total Rewards approach. Compensation and benefits used be considered as separate buckets, separate strategies for reward and retention. Now, companies need to think about the bigger picture and see these things as part of an entire package. The rewards are different between developing countries and countries that are more established. In China right now, cash is king. In places like India, which is further down the spectrum, employers need to offer a more competitive package that includes other incentives besides money. For example, one of our tech clients in Thailand began offering higher-salaried employees access to private hospitals. Because of this, access to private hospitals became a thing of status, a sought-after benefit.
Rising healthcare costs are another global issue for companies. This isn’t just an issue in the US. A big challenge for European employers right now is pensions. Like the car manufacturers did here, companies in Europe have traditionally provided pensions, or defined benefit plans that were primarily employer-funded. For example, at retirement, an employee of a well-established company may receive 60%–80% of their salary paid to them for the rest of their life. Companies are finding that they can’t afford to do this anymore. So there is starting to be a shift towards defined contribution plans, like 401(k)s where the employee pays more of the cost towards the retirement plan. Of course, there is no guarantee you will get X dollars once you retire—it depends on how well the 401(k) did. That’s the way things are now.
Work/life balance is a challenge that any employer faces. Companies need to look at their rewards programs and benefit structures need to be flexible to meet the needs of different generations. For example, life insurance is probably not a priority for a 24-year old employee, as it would be for an older employee.
What are some of the challenges you face when assisting clients in instituting international benefits programs?
One is a lack of expertise on the client’s part, especially if it is going global for the first time. At this point, the company’s HR department is lean and mean, and they tend to rely too much on us for backroom HR functions. So we try to coach and clarify our role with them.
Another challenge and opportunity is that, because of Sarbanes Oxley, everyone wants to be centralized. Before, companies’ benefit plans were generally decentralized. There is a lot of work and due diligence involved in bringing these benefits under one umbrella.
Keeping up with fast-paced changes is another one. For example, last year in the Netherlands, medical, disability, pension laws changed. We need to keep up with this kind of thing, and there are a lot of countries out there!
Are there any benefits that are common internationally, that you don’t really see in domestic benefit plans?
Pensions are a bigger deal in Europe than they are here. Company cars are a huge benefit in Europe, because it’s a status symbol to have one. There are many taxes associated with owning a car. In Asia, allowances are common. Employees have allowances for condolences—they get X number of dollars and days off. In Korea and Taiwan, the 60th birthday is a big deal. If an employee’s parent turns 60, the employee receives money and time off. But generally speaking, most benefit offerings cover the same kinds of things across the globe.
How do you think the industry is evolving for the future? And specifically within International Benefits?
Banks owning insurance brokerages. Many people thought this was a fluke, but they are here to stay. There are some that are successful, but there are a lot that don’t know how to run this business. Many will get out of it. There has also been an increase in private equity firms coming in to finance brokerage firms. Some well-known larger names will not survive, because they don’t have the management talent or don’t have strong enough differentiators to survive in the marketplace.
We’ll also see more globalization—that is not going to stop. A lot clients talk about growth overseas, not in the US. So brokers will need to be conversant; they need to learn to play in this realm. International is one of the keys to our firm’s future in general, in D&O, P&C and Benefits.
Changing legislation, the possibility of socialized healthcare, China as an emerging power—these are all factors that will shape the industry. We’re going to have to know how to respond to these things.
What would be your advice for women who are trying to get ahead in the workplace?
Having a strong mentor is important, someone to bounce ideas off of. And he or she—it can be a man or a woman—doesn’t have to be within the company. Also, a lot of people don’t know what they want. You have to know what you want, then have the ground rules on how to get there.
You know, women of my generation had to overcome barriers and fight our way to get ahead, and so you tend to feel like that’s what others have to do to get ahead. There’s irony in that, because it’s good that women don’t have quite the same sort of gender struggles we did back then—it’s a good thing.
I do have a funny story… before I started at Woodruff-Sawyer, I worked at another brokerage. One day, I was wearing a navy blue jersey dress, long sleeves, round collar, with the hem down to the floor. Red scarf tied as a belt. It was the fashion then, and it was conservative. The president of the company at the time came up to me and said, “That is not appropriate for work.” I responded, “The day you pay for my wardrobe is the day you can decide what I wear.” Needless to say, I decided I’d better start looking for another job! I wasn’t going to fit in there.
Do you have a fun bit of WS&Co. office lore that you can share?
One of our competitors, Dinner Levinson, was located in our building here in San Francisco. The head of that office at one time was Bob Nevins, who happens to be Mary’s (Sklarski) dad. Well one day, one of our employees who worked under Bob Sawyer needed a car to go to a client. Bob said to go ahead and take his car, which was parked in the garage downstairs. The employee does this and drives off in a Mercedes. Later on, Bob Nevins comes down to get his car (a Mercedes), and it’s gone. The employee had driven off in HIS car, not Bob Sawyer’s! It was a funny mix-up. But we had a great relationship with Dinner Levinson.
When I first started at Woodruff, women could not wear pants and men had to wear suits everyday. That was just the way it was back then. Eventually the women were allowed to wear pants, but men still had to have a suit on at all times. I guess you can say women had this perk that the men didn’t. When I became president, I instituted business casual for men.
If you could do it all over again, would you do anything different?
It’s been a great ride. I learn something new almost every day, and I love that. What I’ll miss the most when I retire is the people. (pause) If I had to go back, maybe I would have liked to have had more work/life balance. But then I couldn’t have gotten to where I did. I could not have asked for better partners. I couldn’t have done it without them. It’s a great team.